tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38902250.post1071857617890503586..comments2023-10-25T04:04:15.348-07:00Comments on When Pigs Fly Returns: Feathers, Fuzz, and all that FluffZachhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08692080707969333711noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38902250.post-24908420940713242892009-03-24T18:53:00.000-07:002009-03-24T18:53:00.000-07:00No offense taken by me! It's not my opinion, but t...No offense taken by me! It's not my opinion, but that's all I'm hearing from the VP department at KU (ala Larry Martin and others). I just don't know how to respond.....thank you (and you too, Jerry!) for your insight, that helps clear my understanding.Gombessahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05116921239474226185noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38902250.post-62993165833027294132009-03-24T14:27:00.000-07:002009-03-24T14:27:00.000-07:00BTW, could anyone send me the paper in which Tiany...BTW, could anyone send me the paper in which <I>Tianyulong</I> is described? Thanks in advance....Zach Armstronghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09503649012948013913noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38902250.post-35474431101529438662009-03-24T14:22:00.000-07:002009-03-24T14:22:00.000-07:00Sarah: There are several reasons why the feather-l...Sarah: There are several reasons why the feather-like integument of <I>Tianyulong</I> could <B>not</B> be collagen. <BR/><BR/>As Greg Paul said in a post to the Dinosaur Mailing List recently, regarding <I>Tianyulong</I>: "It is not possible for the fibers to represent internal collagen. They are too long, extend much too far from the body even on the tail, and are oriented in exactly the manner of external fur and feathers (sweeping outwards and a little posterior rather than the more irregular, criss-cross pattern expected of collagen). This pattern is repeated on numerous Yixian theropod specimens as well as birds. Nor has it been explained why small dinosaur skin was packed with so much collagen -- they were not spring bodied ichthyosaurs after all. The collagen hypothesis is scientifically deceased unless heterodontosaurs or small theropods with extensive scale coverings show up. "<BR/><BR/>Furthermore, when one compares the known collagen fiber impressions of ichthyosaurs to this (which has been the primary means of comparison by Theagarten Lingham-Soliar, Alan Feduccia and others), it can definitely be ascertained that <I>Tianyulong</I>'s feathers are not collagen. As an aside to that, if we assumed it <I>was</I> collagen, then what are terrestrial bipedal herbivores doing with thick skin layers of a bathypelagic marine animal?! Does that make any sense?! Those who argue for a comparison between ichthyosaur collagen and the feather-like integumentary structures in dinosaurs have no answer, and need to get their head checked....no offense.Zach Armstronghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09503649012948013913noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38902250.post-31478026938244042322009-03-24T12:20:00.000-07:002009-03-24T12:20:00.000-07:00What are your thoughts on people considering these...<B><I>What are your thoughts on people considering these feathers on the heterodontosaur merely collagenous fibers, and not feathers? I don't know enough about the discovery to make an argument either way, and of course, that is what some people here at Kansas are saying.</I></B><BR/><BR/>Without saying that the structures on <I>Tianyulong</I> (or the quill-tailed <I>Psittacosaurus</I>, for that matter) are homologous with "protofeathers" (which is still wholly up in the air...as it were), my limited understanding of collagen fibers is that these things are <B>WAY</B> too long to be collagen fibers in proportion to the size of the animal....aren't they? I also don't know how collagen fibers are oriented within the skin, but if they're oriented perpendicular to the skin surface, then these things would mean the animal has skin that was far thicker than the rest of the body combined...! If they're oriented parallel to the skin surface, wouldn't that make the skin incredibly tough and inflexible?dinogamihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14959197175594052460noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38902250.post-66779851737197473072009-03-24T08:27:00.000-07:002009-03-24T08:27:00.000-07:00What are your thoughts on people considering these...What are your thoughts on people considering these feathers on the heterodontosaur merely collagenous fibers, and not feathers? I don't know enough about the discovery to make an argument either way, and of course, that is what some people here at Kansas are saying.Gombessahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05116921239474226185noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38902250.post-88589995060832638682009-03-24T06:45:00.000-07:002009-03-24T06:45:00.000-07:00With regards to your footnote: I would say that th...With regards to your footnote: I would say that the "increasing doubt" may be taking a MAJOR U-turn in the next few months... I'm just saying is all...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38902250.post-32131432163393149292009-03-23T19:52:00.000-07:002009-03-23T19:52:00.000-07:00Man it is really exciting right now in Dinosaur pa...Man it is really exciting right now in Dinosaur palaeo!!!<BR/><BR/>This totally starts filling in holes that have been begging to be filled. <BR/><BR/>In particular the Polar Dino question. Bell and Snively's paper on migration raised many issues around how smaller polar dinos were surviving, but they didn't have any evidence of feathers in Ornithischians. The Dinosaurs of New Zealand are clear proof that not all Dinos could migrate from the poles and surviving there (as NZ split from Gondwanaland 83mya). <BR/><BR/>All Dino types having the potential to have feathers makes that sit a lot easier. Though it raises one last interesting family everyone is overlooking...<BR/><BR/>Ankylosaurs! They along with the Hypsolophodontids are always present in the poles (as in North and South). Picture that?!? A feathered Ankylosaur!!! (specifically Nodosaurs, as we don't have any proper Ankylosaurids in the south... yet anyways?)... Though the armour strikes me as having certain isolating potential. Still image on of them coverd in fuzz TOO!<BR/><BR/>That overall Archasaur issue bring chills to the spine for sure.traumadorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00387315561167115253noreply@blogger.com